Gussie Kantrowitz

EC: Today I shall interview Mrs. Samuel Kantrowitz of West Hartford who knew Sophie Tucker in her early days in Hartford. Mrs. Kantrowitz, who knew Sophie and the Abuza family, who came to the country even before the turn of the century, will have much to tell us. Sophie Abuza Tucker, the earthy songstress known as the Last of the Red Hot Mamas, who died just a few years ago, was Hartfords gift to the world of vaudeville, music and song. She is already a legend. Mrs. Kantrowitz, before we start our talk, lets listen to Sophie as she sings the two numbers for which she is most famous Some of These Days and My Yiddishe Mama. [Songs from Record.]

EC: We have listened to these two well-known songs which must bring back many memories to you, Mrs. Kantrowitz. However, I want still to like to digress for a few more moments to read the record companys biographical notes on Sophie Tucker.

EC: Sophie Tucker is a wonderful performer, she is a phenomenon of show-business, an elemental force that shaped the entertainment of our time. When she died they didnt have to break the mold because there was no danger of anyone ever filling it. The last of the red hot mamas, Sophies throaty tones boomed through six decades of Americas theatrical life. Appropriately, she literally was born on the road. Her mother was traveling by wagon out of Russia to escape the pogroms in 1894 when Sophie arrived. It was a storybook opening to a career that beggars most fiction and what a career. Singing first as a youngster in her fathers restaurant in Hartford, of course, then in vaudeville routines, an apprenticeship in burlesque, the Ziegfield Follies, nightclub engagements, movies, the Borsht Circuit, radio and television, the Palace on Broadway, and the Palace in England for a command performance for King George and Queen Mary. You name it, Sophie played it and scored a conquest every time. Along the way she made song hits after song hits her very own. Some of These Days, which we heard here, of course, was her trademark and even became the title of her frank and spirited autobiography. She poured a world of warmth and affection into her countless renditions of My Yiddishe Mama, which use to be her most requested number on her many triumphant European tours. And, of course, Sophie developed an earthy lusty style that matched the lyrics of such crowd-pleasers as No one Woman can Satisfy Any one Man All the Time, The Older They Get, The Younger they Found Them, Youve Got to be Loved to be Healthy, and a host of others. As one of Sophies hits puts it Life Begins at 40 and no one personified it more than she. Listening to her as she belts out each song in her own inimitable way, you once again share in the joy that was Sophie Tucker. She was referred to as an institution of show-biz, but her free spirit was never institutionalized. Even that big-framed ample body wasnt large enough to encompass her lusty generous heart and it spilled over to brighten the lives of the millions. She was one of a kind. She was larger than life. She was Sophie Tucker.

EC: Well, there you have heard it, Mrs. Kantrowitz, now perhaps you will have a story to tell us.

GK: I have several stories. The record that you have just played of the Yiddishe Mama reminds me of a time Belle Baker was playing a benefit and she asked Sophie if she could sing the Yiddishe Mama. Sophie said you gonif, if you do, then I will never talk to you. So, I suppose, she didnt want to start in with Sophie, so she did not sing the Yiddishe Mama at that particular performance. Another time, Sophie was asked to play a benefit, she was working in Reisenweber's at the time, we use to go and see her now and then

EC: Well, what is Reisenweber's?

GK: It was a nightclub

EC: Oh.

GK: In New York. And they asked her there was some sort of a benefit and they asked her to come in and do a few numbers. She told them that she will come in in between her acts at Reisenweber's, but whenever shell get to the place they will have to let her in because she will have to go back.

EC: She was still performing at the other place?

GK: Thats it. So, we went over to this hall where they had this benefit. Nora Bayes was coming on just as she went in.

EC: Thats a name that is vaguely familiar to me.

GK: She was a terrific actress, she was a great actress, she was a big actress.

EC: Was she also a singer?

GK: Yes, she was a singer and Nora Bayes was just coming on when Sophie ran it Sophie always ran and she said you said that you would take me in right away because I have to go back. So, Sophie went on and they just she was there for fully three-quarters of a hour. Well, after that, Nora Bayes never went on.

EC: She probably would never even talk to her.

GK: No, that wasnt Sophies fault, but Nora Bayes just couldnt go on after the reception that Sophie got because Sophie, they just wouldnt let her off the stage. She kept on for three-quarters of a hour one song after another. When Sophie got through going back to her she was already late for her performance, Nora Bayes said that I cant go on now and she didnt.

EC: In other words, Sophie Tucker had really just captured the crowd.

GK: She took over, thats all.

EC: Well, I suppose you have other stories about Sophie?

GK: When we first this goes back to 1918, Sophies sister, Anna Abuza, came to work for the Connecticut Furriers, we were the Connecticut Furriers.

EC: Yes, of course.

GK: Kantrowitz and Neiditz. Since after that, since she was in the store for awhile, she called up and said, Mrs. Kantrowitz, I would like to have you come to Market Street my father and mother always lived with us and bring your parents. I would like very much for my mother to meet you and your parents.

EC: In other words, you hadnt met her family yet in 1918.

GK: So, I took my father and my mother in the car one afternoon. I called up Mrs. Abuza that we are coming. We came over to Market Street and we went upstairs and my father gave one look at her

EC: At who? At Sophies mother?

GK: Yes, at Sophies mother, and her started he said Yahuth, you went to hader with her Zion 50-60 years ago.

EC: You mean in Russia? Where did you come from?

GK: Well, my father came from Bratslav. I was born in [?], that is a small town.

EC: This is still Russia, all of it?

GK: Oh, yes, but Sophies mother and my father went to hader together in Bratslav. She was beautiful. She was like Sophie. Then my father told us the story of how he used to stay on one side of the fence. You couldnt just go over and talk to a girl when you were 10-12 years old at hader.

EC: Oh, I didnt even know that boys and girls went to hader together.

GK: Oh, they did, but they were in separate rooms on separate sides. And he said that he would just stand there and look at her. The reason he recognized her she looked like her mother Sophie looked like her mother and Sophies mother you wouldnt remember a person after 50 to 60 years but he remembered her mother. He stood there motionless. He couldnt say a word for a few minutes and then he yelled Yahuth, that was her Jewish name. Since then, we were very very friendly, right along, and we still hadnt met Sophie until the following year. In 1920 we had a house in New London, on Ocean Beach. We bought with the Abuzas.

EC: Oh, by this time you were good and friendly with the Abuzas, I can see that.

GK: Oh, yes, the whole family. All the brothers and Anna who worked for us for years and years. We bought a house in New London at Ocean Beach, a duplex. Sophie bought half for her mother and we were the other half.

EC: She was always very good to her family.

GK: Oh, God, she was good to everybody and Sophie would come out and if I wanted to peel potatoes, she said that I am a better hand at it then you are, because she used to work in a restaurant before she was married. She said, Oh, No, I can do it better than you. She would sit down and peel the potatoes and then, of course, we would ear from her.

EC: Do you remember distinctly your first meeting with Sophie?

GK: The first meeting was she played here in, I think, it was the Capitol, a benefit for the Hebrew Home and she brought, of course, Ted Shapiro, her pianist, who was always with her. She could never go without him, we knew him very well. So, we all went over to the Abuza house before the performance and she brought Ted Shapiro with her and a few others and then after that we would see her now and then, whenever she came. But now, whenever up until she died whenever she come, she never missed once coming to the cemetery in the Fall.

EC: To visit her parents graves?

GK: Never missed one year. She had it scheduled so that no matter where shed go, she would be here in the Fall to visit the cemetery.

EC: To the annual visits that we all pay to the cemetery.

GK: You always used to see her there. You would always get a nice check from her for the Home. All I had to say was Sophie and she would say all right, how much do you want.

EC: I understand that you were very active with the Hebrew Home anyway, is that right?

GK: Well, I would do a little bit of work now and then when I had time, now not as much, I dont have that much time.

EC: Well, that is how the Hebrew Home grew because women like you worked. Well, it seems to me from everything that I hear that Sophie had a great fondness for Hartford even though she wasnt living here any more.

GK: Well, she did for a long time.

EC: Anyway, let me ask you this. I want to know where did Sophies family come from? How old was she when she got here? Tell me, a couple of things about the family.

GK: She was born on the way to America.

EC: According to what I was just reading

GK: Thats right. Her brother, Phil, who has been dead for a good many years, he was a baby and the rest of the children, Sophie was born on the way, then there was Moe, who we are still very friendly with, I hear from him now and then, and Annie was the baby. There were four of them 2 sons and 2 daughters.

EC: Oh, but four came with the parents?

GK: No.

EC: Four were born here?

GK: Only Phil came the rest were all younger the oldest one came with the parents Sophie was born on the way. Moe and Anna were born in this country.

EC: So, we learn that she really came as an infant.

GK: Thats right.

EC: In other words, schooling was no problem with her?

GK: Oh, no.

EC: What school did she go to?

GK: She went to the Brown School. The Brown School use to be on

EC: Wasnt it on Market Street Market and Morgan I think it was.

GK: That was the old Brown School that was the school she went to.

EC: Well, thats school, were there mostly Jewish children who went to that school?

GK: Oh, no, there were a lot of Italian children even at that time and Polish families mixed group. Most of the Jews lived around there. There was no such thing as

EC: A good number of Jews. Let me ask you this now, I remember hearing stories of about Sophie singing in her fathers restaurant. He had a restaurant, where was that?

GK: On Morgan Street.

EC: What exactly did she do there?

GK: Shed do everything she sang, she washed dishes, she peeled potatoes. She told us that she was very good at peeling potatoes.

EC: In other words, she helped her parents a great deal.

GK: But, that was before we knew her. We only knew her since Annie came to work for us.

EC: But you did know about

GK: Yes, we knew the history because they use to tell us stories of what she did in the restaurant.

EC: Well, how did it happen that she sang.

GK: Well, she had a voice. She always wanted to get on the stage, so she would sing. She would sing for several actors used to come here years ago, like the Howard Brothers, a few others, so they would eat there because it was the only place they could get a Jewish meal.

EC: It was a Kosher restaurant?

GK: Naturally, it was a Kosher restaurant. She would wait on the tables and in the meantime

EC: Doesnt that remind me when I hear about Eddie Cantor, wasnt he a signing waiter too? Is that sort of the idea, do you think?

GK: I dont remember.

EC: In other words, she started out by really helping her parents. Now, how did she happen to go to New York? How did she happen to go professional, as it were?

GK: Someone heard her in the restaurant. Of course, she got married at the age of 16.

EC: Oh, I see.

GK: Here in Hartford to somebody, to a fellow by the name of Tucker. She has a son who is in New York somewhere, Burt, and after she was married, I think Burt was quite young, she decided that she would like to go on the stage, so she left her child with her family with this sister that worked for us and her mother the child was taken care of and

EC: I believed that she was divorced, is that right?

GK: Oh, Yes.

EC: She never remarried, did she? I dont ever remember hearing that.

GK: Yes, she did remarry. She was married to a fellow by the name of Lackey. He died years ago. She was married to him a good many years.

EC: Well, it certainly has been interesting. I dont know if there is anything else that you want to tell us because as far as I know she was a very big-hearted person and always ready to help with any benefit or anything else.

GK: Oh, yes, thats true, she always would I remember one there was a Behla Katzman here, a friend of her mothers.

EC: She was active in the old peoples home, wasnt that right?

GK: Yes, they were the first ones to work for the Home, did everything, go collecting nickles and dimes for the Home she was her mothers in fact, whenever she used to come to the cemetery in the Fall, she never missed Behla Katzmans grave. She would go and visit it. She took care of her, oh, for a long time. I used to do all of the shopping for Behla and sent her the bills. Then when Behla finally came to the Home on Washington Street, she wasnt able to live alone and I come in one day and said Behla, how much money do you want? So she says $25.00. Can I talk in Jewish yes she asked for $25.00 for the home - $25 for Sophies parents - $25 for this and that a couple of hundred dollars and I said Behla, it is an awful lot of money. You know Sophie works hard, you can give less than that. I said Ill see what I can do. So, I called up Sophie and she said, let her have it, send me the bill. Let her have it. When this Behla Katzman died, Sophie was not here, she was in California, but she called and told me to do everything for her. So, her brother came, Moe came, her brother, Moe Abuza, we all went and then I got a nice letter from Sophie, thanking me for all I did for Behla.

EC: It just shows that she was a big-hearted person and in spite of the fact that she was famous, not only throughout the United States, but from what I read, also in Europe, that she never did forget her hometown. So, she has really left a very good name, as I can see, in Hartford. I would like to ask you, Mrs. Kantrowitz, your first name is Gussie, I understand, tell me a little bit about yourself. From where did you come and when did you come to Hartford, for instance?

GK: I was ten years old when I came to this country

EC: From where?

GK: From Russia and we settled on a farm.

EC: Was there any reason why you left Russia at that time?

GK: Yes, most of our family was already here and then my father and my mother, myself and two other sisters decided it was high time to leave. It was never too pleasant to live where we lived. Out of maybe, 2 out of a 100 were accepted at the Gymnazia. I remember my sister did go through the Gymnazia.

EC: Sort of a high school, wasnt it?

GK: Yes, but you had to be

EC: There was a Jewish quota?

GK: Yes, and unless you had all the best marks and then some, you just couldnt get into a decent school. []

EC: In other words, you learned to talk. How long did it take you?

GK: I dont remember. I know it wasnt easy, but some how or other I mastered the language. But when I left the litte school, I knew just as much as when I first entered. The little that I did know that I had to pick up as I went along by reading.

EC: How long did you live in Willimantic?

GK: At the farm, we got there in 1905, we came to this country.

EC: I see.

GK: And we were married in 1912.

EC: In other words, you met Mr. Kantrowitz in Hartford?

GK: Right, at that time he was already when we got married, he already had a business.

EC: Well, I am going to ask Mr. Kantrowitz about his business, but I just wanted to ask you so your parents came to Hartford after awhile, is that right? The went into business in Hartford?

GK: No, they were older people. They were older people when we came to this country and after we got married, they were left on the farm for awhile and then they sort of gave up and they came to live with me.

EC: Oh, I see, well, when you came to Hartford, did you continue school or did you work?

G: [When I was married ..]

EC: Then your life joined Mr. Kantrowitzs. Well, it has been very nice talking with you, Mrs. Kantrowitz, and I certainly think that what you have told us about Sophie Tucker is something that many people are going to be very interested in. It is a personal story, you know, you can hear a song but it still doesnt tell you the story that you have told us and I understand that you are still and that you have been very active in the Hebrew Home and, was it in the Denver group that youre active? What is that? Oh, the Denver Medical Center, and you are still active somewhat?

GK: Oh, yes, I do what I can, not as much as I used to, but I try.

EC: Well, like all our good Jewish women, you are working all the time at it. So, I want to thank you very much, Mrs. Kantrowitz, and now I think I will let the gentleman take over and we will ask Mr. Kantrowitz about his early life in Hartford at the turn of the century. Thank you very much.